good riddance to PayPal

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good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-5
We've had a PayPal account for years, as the most convenient way for
individuals to send small donations. However, as the person who has
managed that account I can attest that PayPal has always been rather
annoying to deal with, and I've finally hit my limit. I'm in the process
of closing that account (something PayPal makes unnecessarily difficult
and protracted). I was able to refund most of the recent donations that
we were unable to recover, leaving a balance of $259.45 that will either
be forfeited to PayPal or (hopefully) refunded by them back to the
original donors.

The PayPal donate link ("button") on our web site has been removed. I've
asked PayPal to block any future inbound transactions while we fight
over the account closure, but can't be confident that was done. Please
do not donate via PayPal to any account claiming to represent us; such
donations won't go to us and may not ever be returned to you.

This closure of the only convenient means of receiving small donations
does not mean that we do not value such donations. Those of you who have
donated via PayPal, many via recurring donations, have our gratitude and
thanks. I regret that there is no clear alternative to switch to instead
(suggestions welcome if there are options I'm unaware of).

-Steve M.

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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz-2

What about stripe?

Le 5 mai 2016 4:57 PM, "Steve Marquess" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
We've had a PayPal account for years, as the most convenient way for
individuals to send small donations. However, as the person who has
managed that account I can attest that PayPal has always been rather
annoying to deal with, and I've finally hit my limit. I'm in the process
of closing that account (something PayPal makes unnecessarily difficult
and protracted). I was able to refund most of the recent donations that
we were unable to recover, leaving a balance of $259.45 that will either
be forfeited to PayPal or (hopefully) refunded by them back to the
original donors.

The PayPal donate link ("button") on our web site has been removed. I've
asked PayPal to block any future inbound transactions while we fight
over the account closure, but can't be confident that was done. Please
do not donate via PayPal to any account claiming to represent us; such
donations won't go to us and may not ever be returned to you.

This closure of the only convenient means of receiving small donations
does not mean that we do not value such donations. Those of you who have
donated via PayPal, many via recurring donations, have our gratitude and
thanks. I regret that there is no clear alternative to switch to instead
(suggestions welcome if there are options I'm unaware of).

-Steve M.

--
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OpenSSL Software Foundation
20-22 Wenlock Road
London N1 7GU
United Kingdom
+44 1785508015
+1 301 874 2571 direct
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-6
On 05/05/2016 06:34 PM, Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz wrote:
> What about stripe?
>
> ...

I think I may have looked at that before, but I'll revisit it.

Note we would qualify to have a direct "merchant account" with one of
the major credit card processors, but found out there is a requirement
that the web site on which payments are processed be located in the U.S.
Our servers are all in Europe, appropriately so.

-Steve M.

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OpenSSL Software Foundation
20-22 Wenlock Road
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United Kingdom
+44 1785508015
+1 301 874 2571 direct
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

debbie10t
In reply to this post by Steve Marquess-5
Hello,

On 05/05/16 21:41, Steve Marquess wrote:

> We've had a PayPal account for years, as the most convenient way for
> individuals to send small donations. However, as the person who has
> managed that account I can attest that PayPal has always been rather
> annoying to deal with, and I've finally hit my limit. I'm in the process
> of closing that account (something PayPal makes unnecessarily difficult
> and protracted). I was able to refund most of the recent donations that
> we were unable to recover, leaving a balance of $259.45 that will either
> be forfeited to PayPal or (hopefully) refunded by them back to the
> original donors.
>
> The PayPal donate link ("button") on our web site has been removed. I've
> asked PayPal to block any future inbound transactions while we fight
> over the account closure, but can't be confident that was done. Please
> do not donate via PayPal to any account claiming to represent us; such
> donations won't go to us and may not ever be returned to you.
>
> This closure of the only convenient means of receiving small donations
> does not mean that we do not value such donations. Those of you who have
> donated via PayPal, many via recurring donations, have our gratitude and
> thanks. I regret that there is no clear alternative to switch to instead
> (suggestions welcome if there are options I'm unaware of).
>
> -Steve M.
>

I do hope an excellent solution can be found.

Apologies in advance for this probably going off topic.

Steve, could you possibly provide any details of how Paypal
caused you to "finally hit your limit" ?
(your blog would be great)

I am sure I am not the only curious person reading this ;)

Many Thanks
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-5
On 05/05/2016 07:52 PM, debbie10t wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 05/05/16 21:41, Steve Marquess wrote:
>> We've had a PayPal account for years, as the most convenient way for
>> individuals to send small donations. However, as the person who has
>> managed that account I can attest that PayPal has always been rather
>> annoying to deal with, and I've finally hit my limit. ...
>
> I do hope an excellent solution can be found.
>
> Apologies in advance for this probably going off topic.
>
> Steve, could you possibly provide any details of how Paypal
> caused you to "finally hit your limit" ?
> (your blog would be great)
>
> I am sure I am not the only curious person reading this ;)

Well, I don't want to turn this into a PayPal bashing session ... I do
recognize that they have a huge number of customers, that fraud is a
constant problem, and that they need to economize on the human element
in their customer support operations. But briefly put, the last straw in
this case was yet another "your account has been limited" drill where
access to our funds is blocked and we're now required to send in copies
of my passport and social security card, and battle with their tedious
voice response system. This time that initial call took only 28 minutes,
quicker than usual, but I'm tired of never knowing when they will
arbitrarily slam some sort of arbitrary restriction on the account that
takes hours of my time to resolve. I'll still need at least one more
call to close the account ... sigh.

-Steve M.

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Re: good riddance to PayPal

debbie10t


On 06/05/16 01:08, Steve Marquess wrote:

> On 05/05/2016 07:52 PM, debbie10t wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On 05/05/16 21:41, Steve Marquess wrote:
>>> We've had a PayPal account for years, as the most convenient way for
>>> individuals to send small donations. However, as the person who has
>>> managed that account I can attest that PayPal has always been rather
>>> annoying to deal with, and I've finally hit my limit. ...
>> I do hope an excellent solution can be found.
>>
>> Apologies in advance for this probably going off topic.
>>
>> Steve, could you possibly provide any details of how Paypal
>> caused you to "finally hit your limit" ?
>> (your blog would be great)
>>
>> I am sure I am not the only curious person reading this ;)
> Well, I don't want to turn this into a PayPal bashing session ... I do
> recognize that they have a huge number of customers, that fraud is a
> constant problem, and that they need to economize on the human element
> in their customer support operations. But briefly put, the last straw in
> this case was yet another "your account has been limited" drill where
> access to our funds is blocked and we're now required to send in copies
> of my passport and social security card, and battle with their tedious
> voice response system. This time that initial call took only 28 minutes,
> quicker than usual, but I'm tired of never knowing when they will
> arbitrarily slam some sort of arbitrary restriction on the account that
> takes hours of my time to resolve. I'll still need at least one more
> call to close the account ... sigh.
>
> -Steve M.
>

Steve,
thank you for your clearly honest reply, I too share a hatred of
voice response systems .. i prefer to press a button too ..

   "If i can call the xx digit international number
    i can surely press one or two more .. "

Alternative suggestion to quitting Paypal outright:
   Get somebody you trust to handle Them // "as the most convenient way .. "

* not a paypal stooge .. think a little "out of the box" thinking may
help :)

Highest regards
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Jakob Bohm-7
In reply to this post by Steve Marquess-6
On 06/05/2016 00:59, Steve Marquess wrote:

> On 05/05/2016 06:34 PM, Luis Daniel Lucio Quiroz wrote:
>> What about stripe?
>>
>> ...
> I think I may have looked at that before, but I'll revisit it.
>
> Note we would qualify to have a direct "merchant account" with one of
> the major credit card processors, but found out there is a requirement
> that the web site on which payments are processed be located in the U.S.
> Our servers are all in Europe, appropriately so.
There are global payment processors in Europe too, usually
covering only companies/websites in one country.

For example our web sites currently accept payments via a
Merchant account in our home country, set up via a local
dedicated payment front end service known as DIBS, which
does the heavy lifting of being PCI certified, and also
assures our customers that their credit card details are
never shared back to our servers.  Basically, the end
user enters their credit card on their site during the
transaction, and we get the final result as they link back
to our site at the end.  Of note is that while our company
is in the country of the Merchant account and service
provider, our servers are elsewhere entirely.

So it should be possible to find a similar service in the
country where the OpenSSL is legally based, but please
avoid services that make users set up accounts or
otherwise complicate the transaction, such as
"Money Bookers" or PayPal.

Enjoy

Jakob
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Michel
In reply to this post by Steve Marquess-6
Hi steve,

Isn't it conceivable to ask one of the European payment service provider to
sponsor you by offering a free account / accesss to their plateform ?
I know some which are secured only with the help of your product.
They should be proud to help in return.
:-)
 
-----Message d'origine-----
De : openssl-users [mailto:[hidden email]] De la part de
Steve Marquess
Envoyé : vendredi 6 mai 2016 01:00
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [openssl-users] good riddance to PayPal

Note we would qualify to have a direct "merchant account" with one of the
major credit card processors, but found out there is a requirement that the
web site on which payments are processed be located in the U.S.
Our servers are all in Europe, appropriately so.



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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-5
On 05/06/2016 04:40 AM, Michel wrote:
> Hi steve,
>
> Isn't it conceivable to ask one of the European payment service provider to
> sponsor you by offering a free account / accesss to their plateform ?
> I know some which are secured only with the help of your product.
> They should be proud to help in return.
> :-)

In my role as the OpenSSL beancounter I've run into a more general issue
with non-U.S. banks. The great bulk of our donation funding comes from
outside the U.S. and is spent outside the U.S., and really shouldn't
need to reside in or even transit through the U.S. But, since I'm
American and know that country best that's where I set up the OpenSSL
legal entities and bank accounts years ago.

I've been trying unsuccessfully to transition our funding to a non-U.S.
bank for some time. But, we're an unusual organization (banks don't like
unusual) and I also am operating under a severe handicap known as
"FATCA", the TL;DR of which being that when a bank sees I'm calling from
a U.S. number and speaking with an obvious U.S. accent they can't
dismiss me fast enough, usually before I get the chance to emphasize
that no "U.S. person" needs to have signature authority for the account.
I've been through this drill with dozens of banks, from Estonia to
Singapore. We've gotten as far as opening an account with an initial
deposit, only to have that bank close the account for unspecified
reasons a week later. I've spent an unbelievable amount of time on this.

If there is a non-U.S. bank willing to have OpenSSL as a customer I'd
love to talk to them. We've even created non-U.S. corporate entities (in
IoM and BVI) for that purpose; after many months they remain bankless.

-Steve M.

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United Kingdom
+44 1785508015
+1 301 874 2571 direct
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Jakob Bohm-7
On 06/05/2016 12:36, Steve Marquess wrote:

> On 05/06/2016 04:40 AM, Michel wrote:
>> Hi steve,
>>
>> Isn't it conceivable to ask one of the European payment service provider to
>> sponsor you by offering a free account / accesss to their plateform ?
>> I know some which are secured only with the help of your product.
>> They should be proud to help in return.
>> :-)
> In my role as the OpenSSL beancounter I've run into a more general issue
> with non-U.S. banks. The great bulk of our donation funding comes from
> outside the U.S. and is spent outside the U.S., and really shouldn't
> need to reside in or even transit through the U.S. But, since I'm
> American and know that country best that's where I set up the OpenSSL
> legal entities and bank accounts years ago.
>
> I've been trying unsuccessfully to transition our funding to a non-U.S.
> bank for some time. But, we're an unusual organization (banks don't like
> unusual) and I also am operating under a severe handicap known as
> "FATCA", the TL;DR of which being that when a bank sees I'm calling from
> a U.S. number and speaking with an obvious U.S. accent they can't
> dismiss me fast enough, usually before I get the chance to emphasize
> that no "U.S. person" needs to have signature authority for the account.
> I've been through this drill with dozens of banks, from Estonia to
> Singapore. We've gotten as far as opening an account with an initial
> deposit, only to have that bank close the account for unspecified
> reasons a week later. I've spent an unbelievable amount of time on this.
>
> If there is a non-U.S. bank willing to have OpenSSL as a customer I'd
> love to talk to them. We've even created non-U.S. corporate entities (in
> IoM and BVI) for that purpose; after many months they remain bankless.
>
>
Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.

Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.

Enjoy

Jakob
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Salz, Rich
> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>
> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.

Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.

It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.

If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-4
On 05/06/2016 07:45 AM, Salz, Rich wrote:
>> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>>
>> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
>
> Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
>
> It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
>
> ...

FATCA means that no "U.S. person" can have any access to the bank
account; we are well and painfully aware of that, and it's not a
problem. Only three of us fall in that category anyway; OpenSSL is not a
U.S. centric organization. Our U.S. connections are only due to the
circumstantial fact that the OpenSSL team member (me) who initially set
up our banking arrangements happened to be American.

-Steve M.

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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Jakob Bohm-7
In reply to this post by Salz, Rich
On 06/05/2016 13:45, Salz, Rich wrote:
>> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>>
>> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
> Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
>
> It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
>
> If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
I was thinking of the more simple solution of setting up
the account in the same non-US bank where the team member
does his other business.  Lots of this tends to get easier
when the person is an existing customer and the bank is
nearby.

Each non-US team member presumably has at least one existing
bank relationship and presumably knowledge and/or easy access
to information on how to set up an independent legal entity
in his/her own country.

Enjoy

Jakob
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Transformervej 29, 2860 Søborg, Denmark.  Direct +45 31 13 16 10
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-5
On 05/06/2016 09:14 AM, Jakob Bohm wrote:

> On 06/05/2016 13:45, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>>>
>>> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
>> Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was
>> going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
>>
>> It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
>>
>> If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
> I was thinking of the more simple solution of setting up
> the account in the same non-US bank where the team member
> does his other business.  Lots of this tends to get easier
> when the person is an existing customer and the bank is
> nearby.
>
> Each non-US team member presumably has at least one existing
> bank relationship and presumably knowledge and/or easy access
> to information on how to set up an independent legal entity
> in his/her own country.

Personal bank accounts, yes. But, we don't want to entangle OpenSSL
funds with any team members personal finances. Those funds need to be
held by an independent OpenSSL legal entity (of which there are already
several). Also keep in mind that most of my colleagues are hardcore
geeks best suited to wrangling OpenSSL code. I try to handle as many
paperwork hassles as possible to free them for that more important activity.

As for setting up "an independent legal entity", we have engaged a
number of (expensive) accountants and attorneys to that end, and along
the way have created two non-U.S. legal entities. The bank account(s)
those entities would need to be of any value have proven to be the
bigger challenge.

The issue is still being actively worked, and I'm sure we'll solve it
eventually. I initially (as someone who has created multiple U.S.
companies) thought it would be as easy as you assume. It's been an
education.

-Steve M.

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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Michael S. Zick-4
In reply to this post by Steve Marquess-4
On Fri, 6 May 2016 08:06:48 -0400
Steve Marquess <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/06/2016 07:45 AM, Salz, Rich wrote:
> >> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
> >>
> >> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
> >
> > Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was
> > going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
> >
> > It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
> >
> > ...
>
> FATCA means that no "U.S. person" can have any access to the bank
> account; we are well and painfully aware of that, and it's not a
> problem. Only three of us fall in that category anyway; OpenSSL is
> not a U.S. centric organization. Our U.S. connections are only due to
> the circumstantial fact that the OpenSSL team member (me) who
> initially set up our banking arrangements happened to be American.
>

Lower left column:
https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-FATCA

You just have to love that:
...in addition to FoBAR reporting.  ;)

= = = = =

Seriously,
As copyright owners you can rescind license permissions as you wish.

Contact this person:
https://www.irs.gov/uac/Commissioner-John-Koskinen
and give them 30 days to purge any and all use of OpenSSL from the
irs.gov network.
A specific license withdrawal.

You should at least be able to start a useful conversation that way.

Mike

> -Steve M.
>

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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Jakob Bohm-7
In reply to this post by Steve Marquess-5
On 06/05/2016 15:26, Steve Marquess wrote:

> On 05/06/2016 09:14 AM, Jakob Bohm wrote:
>> On 06/05/2016 13:45, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>>> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>>>>
>>>> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
>>> Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was
>>> going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
>>>
>>> It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
>>>
>>> If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
>> I was thinking of the more simple solution of setting up
>> the account in the same non-US bank where the team member
>> does his other business.  Lots of this tends to get easier
>> when the person is an existing customer and the bank is
>> nearby.
>>
>> Each non-US team member presumably has at least one existing
>> bank relationship and presumably knowledge and/or easy access
>> to information on how to set up an independent legal entity
>> in his/her own country.
> Personal bank accounts, yes. But, we don't want to entangle OpenSSL
> funds with any team members personal finances. Those funds need to be
> held by an independent OpenSSL legal entity (of which there are already
> several). Also keep in mind that most of my colleagues are hardcore
> geeks best suited to wrangling OpenSSL code. I try to handle as many
> paperwork hassles as possible to free them for that more important activity.
I was trying to say that retail banks can be very helpful
when an existing personal account holder wants to set up a
business account with themselves as a signatory (but not
owner).  Especially if the legal entity (new or existing)
is also within their jurisdiction.

Things like checking if the person is who his says he is,
checking if the initial deposit is from a suspect source
etc. become much simpler when the bank recognizes the
person as someone they have worked with for years and the
initial money source as an account that was the
correspondent with past checks or other traceable
transfers to/from that known person (all according to the
banks own records).

Throw in the prospect of earning transaction fees on an
associated Merchant account, and motivation can grow
further.

Enjoy

Jakob
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Transformervej 29, 2860 Søborg, Denmark.  Direct +45 31 13 16 10
This public discussion message is non-binding and may contain errors.
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Bear Giles
Is it possible to set up two accounts, one US and one non-US, and then just transfer funds between them? It would be more work than setting up a single account but would eliminate a single point of failure risk.

Bear

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Jakob Bohm <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 06/05/2016 15:26, Steve Marquess wrote:
On 05/06/2016 09:14 AM, Jakob Bohm wrote:
On 06/05/2016 13:45, Salz, Rich wrote:
Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.

Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was
going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.

It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.

If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
I was thinking of the more simple solution of setting up
the account in the same non-US bank where the team member
does his other business.  Lots of this tends to get easier
when the person is an existing customer and the bank is
nearby.

Each non-US team member presumably has at least one existing
bank relationship and presumably knowledge and/or easy access
to information on how to set up an independent legal entity
in his/her own country.
Personal bank accounts, yes. But, we don't want to entangle OpenSSL
funds with any team members personal finances. Those funds need to be
held by an independent OpenSSL legal entity (of which there are already
several). Also keep in mind that most of my colleagues are hardcore
geeks best suited to wrangling OpenSSL code. I try to handle as many
paperwork hassles as possible to free them for that more important activity.
I was trying to say that retail banks can be very helpful
when an existing personal account holder wants to set up a
business account with themselves as a signatory (but not
owner).  Especially if the legal entity (new or existing)
is also within their jurisdiction.

Things like checking if the person is who his says he is,
checking if the initial deposit is from a suspect source
etc. become much simpler when the bank recognizes the
person as someone they have worked with for years and the
initial money source as an account that was the
correspondent with past checks or other traceable
transfers to/from that known person (all according to the
banks own records).

Throw in the prospect of earning transaction fees on an
associated Merchant account, and motivation can grow
further.

Enjoy

Jakob
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Transformervej 29, 2860 Søborg, Denmark.  Direct <a href="tel:%2B45%2031%2013%2016%2010" value="+4531131610" target="_blank">+45 31 13 16 10
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-4
In reply to this post by Jakob Bohm-7
On 05/06/2016 10:29 AM, Jakob Bohm wrote:

> On 06/05/2016 15:26, Steve Marquess wrote:
>> On 05/06/2016 09:14 AM, Jakob Bohm wrote:
>>> On 06/05/2016 13:45, Salz, Rich wrote:
>>>>> Consider having the non-U.S. person do the account setup too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Banks are as scared of US jurisdiction as crypto engineers.
>>>> Yeah, we've done that.  Even to the point where one of the team was
>>>> going to get on a plane to fly to the Isle of Mann.
>>>>
>>>> It's amazingly painful and difficult and so far not productive.
>>>>
>>>> If folks want to give OpenSSL money, mail a check or cash.
>>> I was thinking of the more simple solution of setting up
>>> the account in the same non-US bank where the team member
>>> does his other business.  Lots of this tends to get easier
>>> when the person is an existing customer and the bank is
>>> nearby.
>>>
>>> Each non-US team member presumably has at least one existing
>>> bank relationship and presumably knowledge and/or easy access
>>> to information on how to set up an independent legal entity
>>> in his/her own country.
>> Personal bank accounts, yes. But, we don't want to entangle OpenSSL
>> funds with any team members personal finances. Those funds need to be
>> held by an independent OpenSSL legal entity (of which there are already
>> several). Also keep in mind that most of my colleagues are hardcore
>> geeks best suited to wrangling OpenSSL code. I try to handle as many
>> paperwork hassles as possible to free them for that more important
>> activity.
> I was trying to say that retail banks can be very helpful
> when an existing personal account holder wants to set up a
> business account with themselves as a signatory (but not
> owner).  Especially if the legal entity (new or existing)
> is also within their jurisdiction.
>
> Things like checking if the person is who his says he is,
> checking if the initial deposit is from a suspect source
> etc. become much simpler when the bank recognizes the
> person as someone they have worked with for years and the
> initial money source as an account that was the
> correspondent with past checks or other traceable
> transfers to/from that known person (all according to the
> banks own records).

That is definitely true, which is how I was able to get our local U.S.
bank here to allow signature access to our accounts by non-U.S.
colleagues. It's important that our OpenSSL funding not be accessible by
only one person, as that person could be run over by a beer truck.

Unfortunately a U.S. bank is less than ideal for a non-U.S. centric
organization with funding largely originating from, and spent, outside
the U.S.

We have been less successful in finding a non-U.S. bank willing to have
us as a customer, and not for lack of trying. If you know of a
*specific* bank that would help us please name it (offline if need be).
If we haven't already tried them we will.

> Throw in the prospect of earning transaction fees on an
> associated Merchant account, and motivation can grow
> further.

The U.S. payment processors I've talked to don't like the fact that our
web servers are all located outside the U.S. Based on an offline tip
from another user I've spent a good part of this morning on the phone
with a global payments provider; we're at the familiar "uh, we'll have
to run this by underwriting" stage.

-Steve M.

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Steve Marquess
OpenSSL Validation Services, Inc.
1829 Mount Ephraim Road
Adamstown, MD  21710
USA
+1 877 673 6775 s/b
+1 301 874 2571 direct
[hidden email]
gpg/pgp key: http://openssl.com/docs/0x6D1892F5.asc
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Steve Marquess-4
In reply to this post by Bear Giles
On 05/06/2016 10:44 AM, Bear Giles wrote:
> Is it possible to set up two accounts, one US and one non-US, and then
> just transfer funds between them? It would be more work than setting up
> a single account but would eliminate a single point of failure risk.

Our U.S. bank has been great to work with, and we'll probably keep some
limited funding with them indefinitely. One drawback of that bank is
that they are unable to accept inbound Swift transactions.

It's the non-U.S. bank account that has been the challenge. It took me
awhile to figure out that FATCA was a fatal impediment to having any
involvement by U.S. citizens (e.g. me), but that's not essential. We've
switched our strategy to having no "U.S. person" involvement in our
non-U.S. corporate entities, but still haven't been able to find a bank
that will have us as a customer.

Given our difficulties to date, and the experience with apparently
successfully opening an account only to have that bank abruptly close it
a week later, I definitely would like to have more than one non-U.S.
account. At present the OpenSSL entities have multiple U.S. bank
accounts; managing multiple existing accounts isn't the problem.

-Steve M.

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Steve Marquess
OpenSSL Validation Services, Inc.
1829 Mount Ephraim Road
Adamstown, MD  21710
USA
+1 877 673 6775 s/b
+1 301 874 2571 direct
[hidden email]
gpg/pgp key: http://openssl.com/docs/0x6D1892F5.asc
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Re: good riddance to PayPal

Salz, Rich
In reply to this post by Michael S. Zick-4

> Seriously,
> As copyright owners you can rescind license permissions as you wish.
>
> Contact this person:
> https://www.irs.gov/uac/Commissioner-John-Koskinen
> and give them 30 days to purge any and all use of OpenSSL from the irs.gov
> network.
> A specific license withdrawal.
>
> You should at least be able to start a useful conversation that way.

Sure, like "how about audits Mr {Salz,Marquess,Dukhovni}" -- some of us are US Citizens :)

More importantly, it violates the spirit of OSS...
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